December 3, 2020 at 14:28 #10886
A couple of folks asked about installing the Pianoteq VST on OAX. Not a VST that we were familiar with, but it sounded like fun, so here’s the first step. We are going to show this in two, maybe three videos.
In video one, we go over the basic install at the Windows level and importing the VST into OAX. In the next video, we will look at additional steps to customize both OAX and Pianoteq so you can control it from the OAX touchscreen and include various pianos in your OAX presets.December 4, 2020 at 11:00 #10911Kai-UweParticipant@kai-uwe
Dear Curt, great JOB!!
Looking forward to the customizing Vid.
Take care best regards, KaiDecember 4, 2020 at 13:20 #10915
Kai – Just started on video# 2, where we take a closer look at the Pianoteq side of the setup. I think I’ll end up with video #3 showing the final OAX steps. Trying to keep each video in the 5-6 minute range; otherwise, folks tune out. 🙁
Video# 2 will be out sometime this weekend. Make sure you post any questions on steps that need more detail or things that I miss.December 4, 2020 at 15:14 #10916
Just posted part2 where we set up a couple of presets in the Pianoteq VST. In part 3, we will setup OAX to access those presets, allowing us to control the VST from the OAX touchscreen.
December 6, 2020 at 08:00 #10937
- This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Curt.
Good videos Curt…
Can I please ask for some advice on VST use on OAX as I’m having problems. I should say that I am extremely experienced with VSTs as I have dozens of them and have been using them in a synth setup for 16 years (Note: if anyone wants a fantastic Windows/Apple VST host then try one called Gig Performer – feature rich and rock solid) so that’s not the issue.
No the problem is the Wersi VST host which I find very clunky and not particularly reliable. I have tried 4 different VST instruments and have experienced the same problem with all of them. So they install OK and seem to work superficially – as in if I spent more time with them – then I’m sure they would be fine.
No the problem is with the VST’s own graphic interface. For example how do you actually get it to display? It works if you go from the main Sonic screen via ‘settings’; two left swipes; a click on the VST Host icon and then click on EDIT. But this is really not particularly user friendly and I cannot find any other way of doing it. I cannot believe that this is the recommended routine procedure as its terrible. So what have I missed?
The second more serious problem is this procedure seems to work about 4 times and then no matter what you do (i.e. selecting EDIT and even reloading the VST) – the VST user interface refuses outright to display on the screen. I have found absolutely no way round this problem (I have tried) and basically give up until I reload the organ. So what am I doing wrong? Do other people have this problem?
A third trivial question is what is the impact on OAX and limitations of the 3 different options (“How many VST sounds do you want to create for this plugin?”) when you first install a VST?.
ThanksDecember 6, 2020 at 09:12 #10938
I’ll summarize – Yes, I have had the same issues. You are correct regarding accessing the VST interface via the Settings-VST Host.
I’m getting a second cup of coffee and then starting video three. We will go over linking OAX User sounds to the Pianoteq presets, which will allow us to select different pianos from that VST directly from the OAX touchscreen.
That’s the best way I found to use a VST in OAX. It takes some initial setup time, but you can select a VST voice like any OAX voice once completed. Agreed – not as convenient as pulling up the VST directly to mess around. And you may not be able to access every parameter the VST offers.
In your last question, I think you are talking about the prompt asking about how many voices you want? I think the options are 1 ,16, 128? Let me make a note to mention that in video three and show what is created and where you can access them.
Check back in a couple of hours and see if the next set of steps helps at all. If not, post back additional questions and what VST you are using. If they offer a free demo, we can download and install and mess with a little to see if we can help.December 6, 2020 at 14:20 #10950
Video 3 just posted. It looks like we will need at least one more video to complete this discussion. In this video, we modify one of the OAX VST User Voices to select one of the Pianoteq presets.
What does that mean? Once set up, you can touch the OAX touchscreen to load one of the pianos in the Pianoteq VST like any other OAX sound.
Next video, we will look at controller 7 (volume slider) vs. controller 11 (expression pedal).December 7, 2020 at 06:03 #10952
thank you very much for this tutorial! From my perspective they are really state of the art! …and they really help me to deal with VST plug ins and the OAX system.
JuergenDecember 7, 2020 at 15:14 #10960
The final video in this series just went online. We show selecting Piano voices from the VST directly from the OAX touchscreen and that we can also use the VST sounds in an OAX preset along with changing the octave and adding a split-point (keyboard zone). The final discussion is about using either the volume sliders on the top left of the organ or the expression pedal to control the level of the VST.
I think we covered the basics, although there is quite a bit more customization that you could do. If we missed something or you got lost along the way, speak up, and we will try to answer your question.December 10, 2020 at 14:49 #11006
After watching the videos, Rich had a good question – Can we install with VST3 only?
The quick answer is yes. We went back un-installed and went through the install again, but this time we selected only the VST V3 version and English Manual.
There are a couple of minor changes in the install. See the attached screenshots for a little more detail.
- See attached “Install_Choice” – I only selected vst3 and English manual.
- See “Install_Summary” for just what it says.
- I wasn’t given a choice to pick a location for the *.dll file.
- See “VST3_Location” for where I found the v3 dll.
- I manually copied it to C:\Wersi\Plugins.
- See “Import_VST3” and note that it now shows we are using version 3 when importing into the OAX VST host.
From this point forward, everything else worked and sounded the same.
If you Google vst2 vs. vst3, you can find some articles telling you the differences.December 10, 2020 at 14:50 #11009
Here are the other two screenshots that go with the post above.December 14, 2020 at 14:38 #11087
There are a few updates to this, and not looking so good currently. We have had a couple of offline e-mail conversations and figure we should share this info with everyone in the event you are considering installing.
Here’s where we are:
As you can see in the videos – It was working.
That was with Pinaoteq V7.04 with a VST2 configuration.
Next, an offline conversation about using VST3 instead.
We tried that, and as part of that, we also upgraded to V7.05.
It appeared to be working – Or so we thought!
Next, a new and separate question regarding saving the volume level of the Pianoteq.
When we attempted to try some volume related things, we found that our latest V7.05 VST3 config would crash the OAX VST host when we touched the volume slider in the Pianoteq VST.
One last issue – When attempting to configure with a permanent license on V7.05 VST3 config – the OAX VST host says the VST is invalid.
See attached for our current status, and stay tuned as we try to work back into a “working” config configuration.December 14, 2020 at 15:31 #11089
Just tried the following:
Un-installed V7.05 of Pianoteq from our Sonic.
Next, we re-installed the same version BUT this time, we selected VST2 and VST3 support.
Test #1 – Import into OAX with VST2 support – Volume sliders in Pianoteq work. We have not attempted to save a preset, so the modified volumes are loaded.
Test #2 – Unload Pianoteq VST2 version from OAX. Import VST3 version into OAX and the issue with the OAX VST host crashing is back when attempting to change the volumes of the Pianoteq.
At this point – I would recommend installing both VST2 and VST3 support during the Windows level install of Pianoteq. That gives you the option of importing either one.
More to come in the coming days as we try various configurations.December 17, 2020 at 10:36 #11124
I forgot to mention one other issue Peter found. If you assign multiple Pianoteq voices, they will display correctly in OAX, but only one of the Pianos sounds is actually used.
For example, if you assign Jazz piano to Upper 1 and Honkey Tonk to Lower 1, both manuals play Honkey Tonk. We tried changing voices a couple of times, and it appears the last selected voice always “wins.”
This was as of Pianoteq V7.05 running as a VST2 plugin on OAX 2.80-01.
December 17, 2020 at 14:58 #11125
- This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Curt.
See the post above for background on this comment. It turns out (best we can tell) that Pianoteq is not a multi-timbral module. We found a short discussion in their forum. They recommended running multiple instances of Pianoteq if you want to use two or more different piano sounds.
We just did a quick test, and that does work. It would take a little more thought to set up things, so the names showing up for the different voices would allow you to pick sounds from different instances of the VST.
We still have to check on saving volumes levels in presets – That may or may not work as expected with multiple instances of Pianoteq running.
December 18, 2020 at 06:44 #11126
- This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Curt.
I mentioned before that I have a lot of problems with the VST Host – particularly with the fact that after going back and forth between the Wersi main screen and the VST Host edit screen – then the VST main screen eventually refuses to display (and I cannot get it back!). So I have some questions which I hope someone can please advise:-
1) Is there any way to stop this glitch with the VST’s own display not displaying – or to get it working again.
2) So I want to control the VST’s own reverb and the only way of doing that seems to be to send CC 91 to the VST from the edit window of the Wersi’s main screen. Thats not difficult you say – but the only way I can achieve that is to hit the Edit CC on one of the slider and enter 91 (the CC value for reverb). Unfortunately that appears to be 91 taps/presses of the button. Thats daft – there has to be an easier way – so what have I missed? BTW: Its also odd that you cannot assign the Wersi’s own reverb after the VST but thats another issue.
3) The new OAX supports assignable controllers – so is there any way to assign hardware controllers (e.g. CC slider) to VST parameters.
BDecember 18, 2020 at 10:30 #11127
1 – If you figure it out, please share!
2 – Use the “Spin Wheel” to quickly scroll up or down.
3 – I don’t see a way to do that. Hopefully will be added in the future.December 18, 2020 at 10:42 #11128
1 – If you figure it out, please share!
OK – so its not just me – perhaps somebody else could help (I feel a comment to Wersi is coming on as its been there since v 2.7 at least!).
2 – Use the “Spin Wheel” to quickly scroll up or down.
I presume you are using a hardware mouse – as I can’t think of a software one on the Wersi unless I have missed something so obvious that I am going to feel really silly. If so it ought to be easier.
3 – I don’t see a way to do that. Hopefully will be added in the future.
Thays what I thought – but again I thought I might have missed something. Also I noticed that you can send the assignable controllers to midi output, but there is not enough of them to work with an external drawbar system (e.g. Selector Sound Control 1 to 6) could be made to output)December 18, 2020 at 10:45 #11129
For #2 – No mouse needed. The “wheel” on the right side of the touch screen on the organ console.
Happy Spinning! 🙂December 18, 2020 at 12:15 #11130
Thanks Curt – I never gave that a thought – Duh!!!
As they say – I had heard that this forum was educational – I know that because I have heard people logging out and saying “Well – that taught me a lesson!!!” 🙂 [the old jokes are the best!]
I’m off to do some spinning!!…
cheersDecember 20, 2020 at 09:46 #11144
Grumble-Grumble. The file is too large. Let me go to plan “B.”
Steps to help with the volume comment posted above. A short video showing steps to save a “modified” voice on the Pianoteq side. As shown in earlier videos, you select the modified voice from OAX, and the volume will be whatever you set it to vs. the original volume level in the “factory” Pianoteq preset.
December 21, 2020 at 07:38 #11156
- This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by immusic.
Not sure whether PT is multi-timbral – but for the latest versions 7 version Modartt says in teh blub: Layering: “On popular demand, Modartt adds a new layering feature in Pianoteq 7 (Standard/PRO) allowing to mix several instruments, e.g. playing Bass Marimba in the low range, Xylophone in the upper range and mixing both together in the middle range. The difference between Morphing and Layering is that in the latter the two sounds are mixed together, whereas in Morphing the instrument Physics itself is being morphed.”
I’m a long time user of Pianoteq on my synth as a basic piano (since version 2) [not yet on the Wersi] and there are a couple of suggestions that appear regularly in the PT forum which are worth passing on about improving the sound.
1) Turn the Limiter off (click on the ‘L’ the above volume slider on the front page.)
2) Then turn the volume on the volume slider down quite a long way (by ear) from the default.
3) Move the condition slider (bottom of the front page below the volume slider) about a third of the way across (by ear) – this will age the sound and give it ‘character’.
BarryDecember 23, 2020 at 13:32 #11160
Excellent tips, Barry. I need to try each of those and listen to the results. I did see the addition of layering but haven’t tried that.
We are still messing around trying to understand a volume issue that Peter points out when using an OAX preset vs. the way I showed in our last video where we used a Pianoteq preset.
December 23, 2020 at 14:50 #11163
- This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Curt.
I know there are a couple of folks out there using this VST with OAX. I’d be interested in feedback from folks that actually use it day in and day out.
That may seem like an odd comment, but we are only trying out the free demo version and reacting to folks’ feedback in this forum (or private e-mail) that actually use the product for real. We are not turning on the organ each day and actually playing songs using this VST.
That really doesn’t make us a perfect test case. Overall it works, but there are some subtle details between OAX and Pianoteq. Some could be bugs in OAX or Pianoteq or just making some simple adjustments in using the two when combined?
Thoughts/comments?December 24, 2020 at 06:55 #11164
If you have been following along, we have created several posts related to installing the Modartt Pianoteq V7 VST on OAX – It works “OK” and sounds very nice.
A little background: We don’t use any VST’s with OAX but prefer to use VST’s as plug-ins in our DAW (Logic Pro). If you ever listen to anything we release, there is a 95+% chance that content uses some combination of VST’s running as plug-ins in Logic.
Here’s where it gets interesting (assuming you run as an OAX VST):
Pianoteq7 – It works, BUT there are a few “quirks” integrating with OAX.
See what we have learned up to this point.
The Hammersmith Pro (from Soniccouture).
This VST is our “go-to” piano and what we currently run with our DAW.
Cost about the same as Pianoteq.
Requires you to install the Kontakt player.
It has significant storage requirements.
It’s a 52 GB download-Yikes!
Based on the storage requirements, I don’t recommend this option with OAX.
The Hammersmith Free:
The folks at Soniccoture recently released this version.
It offers fewer options vs. the Hammersmith “Pro.”
It also requires you to install Kontakt 6 (a free download).
Less storage is required. (4.8 GB download).
It’s currently a free download.
One thing we don’t know is how well the free version of Hammersmith will integrate with OAX. Is anyone interested in learning how to install or follow along with us as we give it a try?
We currently have all three of these virtual pianos configured in Logic, and we will post a short demo so you can hear all three of them playing the same piano part of a tune in the next few days.December 24, 2020 at 09:21 #11168
Interestingly the Hammersmith piano that was used for the piano sampling above lives about 10 miles down the road from me. I’ve seen many concerts at the old English barn venue and recording studio where it lives. The owner hires out pianos for concert venues and actually has 4 Steinway Model D’s – the one in the Hammersmith set above is midi enabled in some way which makes it ideal for sampling purposes. I’v also seen him have 4 D’s on stage with 4 pianists in a concert situation – not something may venues can achieve.
Anyway – in terms of other VSTs. One I have been playing with in the Wersi context is the Korg Triton VST created last year by Korg. Again I use it outisde the Wersi and I really like it. The sounds are great and its actually a recreation of the original Triton keyboard – but obviously minuus the sequencer stuff. It comes with 4500 presets (all the original plus the add on packs), is sensibly sized (i.e. no big sample libraries). It runs in a single preset mode and a multichannel combi mode. I actually feel its a good match for the Wersi because the sounds are a similar range of types and are of similar quality. It also comes with a selection of half decent pianos.
The only downside I’ve found so far is that I cannot seem to find a patch list containing PC, MSB, LSB values – pretty important. Its not great in demo mode because it doesn’t seem to remember anything you set up (problems disappear when you register it) and its quite expensive relatively. But for what you get and the fact it does not cost that much more than a Wersi style pack – I feel its not an unreasonable price.
BarryDecember 25, 2020 at 10:23 #11175
WOW! What a small world. That is super interesting regarding the Hammersmith. I’ll have to take a look at the Korg. The last thing I need is more VST’s, but I do enjoy tinkering with the tech side.
I need to spend more time playing.December 25, 2020 at 15:24 #11184
Due to the amount of material we need to cover, this will be split up into multiple videos, making it easier for me to put together and hopefully for you to watch.
In this video, we don’t cover anything related to installing or configuring the Hammersmith Free. We took an original tune we had stashed away, deleted the melody and a few other tracks, and played a few bars of the piano part on the Pianoteq VST, the Hammersmith Free VST, and the Hammersmith Pro VST.
I think you might find the results very interesting when listening. While the available features vary between the three VSTs, so does the price. Of course, at this point, we have no idea what it will take to install the Hammersmith Free VST or how well it will/will not work with the OAX host.
Take a listen, and I’d be VERY interested in which one you prefer?
December 26, 2020 at 15:40 #11196
- This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Curt.
We are on to step # 2 to get the Hammersmith Free piano running in Wersi OAX. Remember that the Hammersmith requires the free Kontakt Player. In this video, we go over the steps to upgrade Kontakt on our Sonic. I suspect many of you will not have Kontakt installed. If not, you will need to follow the Native Instruments site’s steps requiring the download of Native Access and the Kontakt player.
Next video, we will show you the steps to install the Hammersmith using Native Access.December 26, 2020 at 15:46 #11197
You gave me the best Christmas present by doing the Pianoteq videos. I have mine working great. I still need to do some customization both on Pianoteq side and OAX. I found that Pianoteq wants to be its own instrument not just a sound. When doing the midi setup up in Pianoteq it is best to use controller 11 for the expression pedal and controller 7 for Post Gain control. I have better control of the volume this way. If you are using Pianoteq on more than one keyboard, select the keyboard you want more control of and check the volume box (next to the volume curve) in the selector control. Then go to the other keyboard selector and un-check the volume box next to the volume curve. This will allow only one selector slider to control the gain and they will not overwrite each other. Save the change in the total preset. Also using the AMP in the Effects controls of Pianoteq will give better sound matching with OAX sounds (Strings,etc) because you can adjust bass, midrange and treble of Pianoteq. There are drop down menus in the Effect section to callup the AMP features. You still can raise the volume of the selector on the keyboard that has the volume slider turned off by raising the left side of the expression curve for that selector. So much to learn yet but it sounds wonderful.December 26, 2020 at 16:05 #11198
Rich – Great tips for others that would like to install. Although I only have the demo version installed, I found the pianos more to my likening than the default pianos that ship with OAX.
Very interesting regarding the way you combined CC7 & CC11. I hope Peter sees this as he and I have an ongoing discussion on controlling volume. It sounds like you have come up with a nice solution.
Glad we could help.December 28, 2020 at 12:03 #11207
is anybody using the IK Multimedia B-3X Hammond Organ on the OAX?
@Curt: in one of your videos I saw the IK Multimedia B-3X Hammond Organ software and in an other namend Hammond test or so. Have you already tested or used this emulation?
JuergenDecember 28, 2020 at 18:32 #11210
I purchaased the software on Black Friday but haven’t installed it yet. May install this week. I am still customizing Pianoteq and OAX.
I found a trick to use when working in the VST HOST. When editing a VST and close it you may not be able to re-open it again unless you reload OAX. Well the VST is really not closed, it is just placed behind the OAX window. To get to the VST again just press the back button until you get to your normal OAX preset screen. Place your finger at the middle left side edge of the OAX screen and slide your finger toward the middle of the touch screen. OAX minimizes to a very small screen and you will be at the windows desktop. You will also notice the VST screen is there in a very small size. Double tap the VST screen and OAX opens to full size and so does the VST screen. The VST will be in front of OAX this time and easy to work with. If you press the X on the VST upper right side the VST will then close and you will be able to reopen from the VST edit button in the host.December 29, 2020 at 06:45 #11211
Yes, similar to Pianoteq and our current “project” of working with Hammersmith Free, we did install a “B3” VST a while back working with Jeff O. I don’t recall all the details at this point. I did search our old WersiClubUSA site and found this:
Are you thinking about giving it a try?
December 29, 2020 at 07:14 #11213
- This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Curt.
Rich – Love, Love, Love your comments on how to continue to access a VST should the OAX VST host stop presenting it. I’ve run into that issue more times than I can count.
On occasion, I’ve had the Windows taskbar show up while I was still in the standard OAX desktop, but I never figured out how that happened.
I can’t wait to give this a try when we get back to the studio.December 30, 2020 at 18:47 #11214Jerry PattersonParticipant@vulcan1988
I bought the B-3X. Unfortunately I was disappointed with it. I could not get it to blend with my music. There was too much whoop whoop on fast rotor and too much volume variation on slow rotor even with the mics as far away form the cabinet as possible. I bought GG Audio Blue3. I am much happier with this.January 2, 2021 at 14:04 #11218
We took a couple of days off during the holiday season, but we are back with the next step in this multi-video series where we go over the steps to install the Hammersmith-Free Piano as a Kontakt plug-in on Wersi OAX.
In this video, we take you through the steps to add the Hammersmith to Native Access and, ultimately, Kontakt.
Although we mention it in the video – Everything up to this point is taking place at the Windows level of our Sonic. In the next video, we will integrate everything into the OAX VST host.January 3, 2021 at 09:49 #11258
I got really excited at your solution to the VST Host screen disappearing problem – as I find this a real pain. But, unfortunately, I tried it several times and I just could not get it to work. I got back to the Windows screen as you suggest – and there are minimised icons present (i.e. one for OAX and one for presumably the sound card to the right of it) – but no matter where I look I cannot seem to find a VST iconised screen. Its more than likely I am doing something stupid and am missing something obvious to the point it will jump out and bite me! – so I have attached a photo of the screen to see if you (i.e the group ‘you’) can see if I am missing something (sorry for the poor quality!).
So any ideas from anyone has would be gratefully receieved.
BarryJanuary 3, 2021 at 11:48 #11260
In the next video, we are going over the steps to integrate Kontakt with the OAX VST Host. We had hoped to wrap up this topic, but keeping the videos reasonable (in time), we will need one more after this one.January 3, 2021 at 12:23 #11264
yes I thought about using the B3X. But after I read Rich s comments I will stick to the HX3.5 by keyboardpartner. Maybe I will try the Blue 3.
January 3, 2021 at 18:56 #11270
- This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by JK.
I am using Pianoteq 7.5 VST2 file. See attachement, I can minimize from the VST Host page also and see Pianoteq. Double tapping the Pianoteq will bring the VST host and Pianoteq in normal size. Is your VST working at all, can you play a note on the virtual keyboard?January 4, 2021 at 06:43 #11294
Rich – What’s the second yellow box? I can’t make it out in the picture.January 4, 2021 at 10:33 #11300
…it says “OAX mixer (?)” and something in brackets…January 4, 2021 at 13:20 #11308
Juergen – Good eyes!
Rich did mention that he did make some EQ changes. I thought he did that in a different place. Sure enough, there is a Mixer (and an Effects module) that you can insert into the VST chain.
See attached.January 4, 2021 at 13:24 #11310
Wait – I’m just realized that is a mixer not EQ.January 4, 2021 at 13:45 #11311
Barry – I just tried the “trick” that Rich mentioned, and it is working for me. It works fine when I swipe from the left side of the screen directly on the organ.
I connect to my Sonic using the Teamviewer application 99% of the time, supporting videos or some random screenshot. So far, I have not been able to use the mouse on that remote connection to “swipe.” I haven’t tried it with a mouse directly attached to the organ.
Are you using a mouse or directly touching the screen with a finger?January 5, 2021 at 11:03 #11348
In the last video in the “Hammersmith Free Series,” we review the steps that allow OAX to load Kontakt and Kontakt to load the Hammersmith VST. Once you have it set up, it’s fully automated each time you turn on the organ.
The last thing you need to do is decide between the Pianoteq option or the Hammersmith option. Either way, you end up with a nice piano sound added to your OAX instrument.
January 5, 2021 at 12:19 #11350
- This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Curt.
Credit to Peter for digging into the question of volume of the Pianoteq when switching OAX presets. Comments from the Pianoteq support team:
There is no good solution for this issue, at least for now. The “load preset” and “volume change” actions are handled asynchronously by Pianoteq. Thus, their order is quite random. The only workaround that should work is to freeze the ‘Main volume’ parameter. The freeze panel is a bit hidden right now, but the next Pianoteq update will make it more visible and persistent. To freeze it, press Ctrl+F and select the main volume there.
In testing, Peter confirms that this solution does work.April 8, 2021 at 16:53 #12697
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