Drawbar sound

Forums Wersi Products Drawbar sound

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
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  • #15213
    Paul
    Participant
    @paulb

    I love the sound of the original Helios drawbars (my Dad built one from kits and still has it!) and all the presets for these, as well as the ones for the Atlantis but I can’t get the live drawbars to sound anything like them despite playing around with all the settings.

    Am I missing something in the settings or do the live drawbar simulations just not sound like the presets of the orginal sounds?

    #15223
    Rich Albertini
    Participant
    @rich

    Hi Paul,

    The Helios live drawbar sound can be created using the OX7-2 live drawbar module. Press the Wersi button on the top left of the first OX7 page and press “VAR”. Turn the rotor off, select Celeste for the phase vibrato, set phase vibrato to fast and set slow fast button to “Both” on the second OX7 page. You now can control the vibrato from the slow fast Rotor button on the console or program to a foot switch. Save your sound as a user OX7 sound. I like to add the “manual” chorus to that selector. My Chorus settings are MIX=100%, Speed=4.02s, Depth=100%, Pre Delay=6.4 ms, sound= (-)100%, Feedback=0%
    Make sure you set all the sliders for the chorus control to 100%. I use the CC Drawbar programmed for manual chorus so I can adjust the amount of chorus from the CC drawbar. The Input and Output EQ and volume settings are important to get the right tone of the drawbar sound. Sometimes less is more when setting EQ for drawbars.

    Using External speakers are the way to go for drawbar sounds the internal speakers just cannot produce the stereo width and tone quality of the OAX.

    #15226
    Paul
    Participant
    @paulb

    Thanks for this great response Rich !

    I’ll try it out and see how it sounds.

    I’m not familiar with setting up the CC Drawbar yet but I’ll have a look as I know it was in a recent OAX release.

    I have Wersi TS9000 external speakers so what settings do you suggest for Input and Output EQ and volume settings when using the drawbars?

    #15229
    Rich Albertini
    Participant
    @rich

    Paul,

    I usually start out with the output section. Set the volume to 0db or a bit lower. Set all the EQ sliders to midway. Then go to the input and adjust the volume then the EQ sliders. I have my internal speakers in the lower section of the Organ disconnected. The upper speakers are turned off with the sliders in the output section. I am using Electro Voice ELX115P (15 inch speaker with horn tweeter) and ELX118P, 18 inch sub woofers. Total of 4 speaker cabinets, all are wood not resin cabinets. I also have direct boxes on audio input to the cabinets so no hum or hissing sounds. The sound is amazing, about $3K USD.

    #15230
    Bill
    Participant
    @abacus

    You may wish to try out Speaker/Room calibration software as many are now available as a VST, which you can use in the Sonic and will give you a much better and realistic sound (Even with the internal speakers) then just relying on the Wersi output EQ.

    An explanation can be found here https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/what-is-speaker-calibration-software

    Have fun

    Bill

    #15245
    Paul
    Participant
    @paulb

    Thanks Rich

    I’ll revist my settings as it’s some time since I altered them. I tend to play with headphones quite a lot (as my music room doesn’t have a door and my wife isn’t a fan of my music taste, sadly….) which is a great shame when I have such good speakers but I do notice quite a difference between the sound over headphones and via the speakers as different frequency ranges stand out more or less. I’ll experiment a bit more.

    What are the direct boxes you mention? Are they noise suppressors? Is there a link I could look at? I live in the UK so not sure if the different mains voltage we have from you in the USA makes any difference to what woudl help improve the sound?

    #15247
    Paul
    Participant
    @paulb

    Thanks Bill

    Fascinatng. I didn’t know you could get such software separately although I know my Yamaha CVP has something similar built in to offset the room acoustics.

    You say it’s a VST, so can you just load it into the Sonic to control the internal/external speaker Outputs or do you need to run it it via some othr hardware eg a laptop?

    Is there one you’ve tried and, if so, what do you think of it?

    #15251
    Bill
    Participant
    @abacus

    Hi Paul

    Your Wersi is a computer, so the VST Effect can be loaded in to the host like any VST.

    In the VST Host you will find that all the sections of the organ are connected to the 2 outputs (Which also control the internal speakers), all you do is disconnect the organ sections from the outputs and connect them to the VST Effect, you then you connect the VST Effect to the outputs and Save. (Double tapping the button of the VST effect you have loaded in opens up the effect interface)

    There are normally limited demos available for you to try out to see which you prefer. (I like Dirac Live as it gives great results with home cinema systems as well as music systems, so should also be great with your Wersi)

    Have fun

    Bill

    #15252
    Frank
    Participant
    @pluggy

    Hi Rich

    How are the sub-woofers connected, directly to the organ output or some other method?

    #15253
    Paul
    Participant
    @paulb

    Thanks Bill

    Wow – there is so much to explore out there – it’s a completely new area for me as I haven’t ventured into VST’s yet but I’ll certainly follow-up and be back with more questions once I’ve got to grips with it.

    That’s what I love about the OAX platform, there’s so much expansion capability to customise it to your preferences. The only problem with my available time is that I’m torn between just sitting down and playing or exploring these new avenues! ……think I need to retire…..!

    #15267
    BGJay
    Participant
    @bgjay

    Hi Bill,

    Its an interesting idea to use a room correction system. So what do you actually use as a means of measuring the response of the Wersi using Dirac-Live – is there a purpose built microphone system that comes with the software or something as simple as an iPhone ?

    Thanks
    Barry

    #15269
    Bill
    Participant
    @abacus

    Hi Barry

    miniDSP UMIK-1 is the most commonly used as it comes with its own calibration file, you can use a phone but even the best leave a lot to be desired when it comes to any form of accuracy.

    Bill

    #15270
    Bill
    Participant
    @abacus

    Here is a short video, it is using the Logic DAW on a Mac computer, however your Wersi Organ is a basic DAW even though it looks different therefore the setup basics are the same.

    Have fun

    Bill

    #15271
    Curt
    Keymaster
    @immusiccm

    In the past, Bill has commented on this idea. Up to this point, I’ve never taken the leap. I never thought about using it directly on/with the organ – An interesting idea. In my case, I could also use some help to “tune” the config we are using to record/release music.

    We mix on a set of “studio” monitors and then listen on a separate set of “residential speakers,” bounce back and forth until we are happy with the sound on both. In the process, we end up compromising on both sides. One of our biggest challenges is what we hear is strongly influenced by the room we are sitting in.

    As I’m thinking through this a little more and considering how it might help in both cases, maybe I should take the leap and give it a try?

    #15275
    BGJay
    Participant
    @bgjay

    Thanks Bill – info much appreciated. I’ll follow this up.

    Regards
    Barry

    #15279
    Rich Albertini
    Participant
    @rich

    The Electro Voice speakers are a matched set designed to work with each other. The Sub woofers plug into the main speaker cabinet. A switch on the back of the cabinet directs the lows to the sub. The 15″ main speaker then acts as a normal woofer and midrange, the horn tweeter handles the highs.
    These are pro audio speakers with built in amps. I rented a complete set from a pro audio shop for an entire weekend before I decided to buy. I did the purchase of new ones from the same shop so they were nice enough to deduct the cost of the rental from the invoice. You will only need a direct box if you have a lot of hum due to grounding issues, which I had. The direct box has a switch to lift the ground from the audio side. No power is needed for the direct boxes.

    #15280
    Frank
    Participant
    @pluggy

    Thanks Rich.

    I picked up a pair of cheap Alto Tx 210’s from a yard sale for $50. cosmetically a bit beat up, but they work fine and sound surprisingly good. They both have a ground lift switch. When my OAX 600 finally arrives will try them and if okay will add a subwoofer. They have an “Line out” connection so probably a ‘Y’ connector to the subwoofer will work.

    #15290
    Paul
    Participant
    @paulb

    Hi Rich

    I tried your suggestions for replicating the original Helios drawbar sound…and they’re fabulous so many thanks! The bit I coudln’t follow was how to get the chorus settings you mention (MIX/Speed/Depth etc). Where do you alter these settings as I couldn’t find any of them ?

    #15307
    Rich Albertini
    Participant
    @rich

    Hi Paul,

    On the right side of your main OAX screen you will see a touch button labeled EFFECTS. Press the effects button then press chorus on the lower left side of the next screen that appears. You will be able to set the parameters I mentioned then save it as a user chorus with a new name.
    At the left side of the control panel there is a physical button labeled CHORUS, press this button then move the slider on the touch screen labeled Manuals to 100%. Next Double tap the voice on the selector that you want to add chorus to and move the chorus slider to 100%. Resave your total preset to save your chorus settings to the preset. I have all my chorus sliders set to 100% because I have the CC drawbar programmed to Manual Chorus and use the CC Drawbar to control the amount of chorus. The chorus button on the Drawbar section is the Vibrato/Chorus section of the OX7-2 and VB3. It is a different type of chorus for the drawbars.
    I prefer the Manual chorus which is wider and more panning.

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Forums Wersi Products Drawbar sound