Adding a Midi pedalboard

Forums Wersi Products Adding a Midi pedalboard

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  • #14777
    Derek
    Participant
    @derekmatts

    Hi All,

    Now that we can control all manuals via Midi I thought I would try to see if I could install a full pedalboard ( 25 ) on my OAX 500. At the moment only testing using my Genos to send commands to the Wersi. So I am sending on channel 3 and can select all 17 notes on pedals, but I wish to go up to 25 notes but cannot access them.

    Anybody got any ideas as to how, have tried changing the OAX to a 700 in settings which seems to work but still can’t access the extra notes??

    Derek….

    #14778
    Bill
    Participant
    @abacus

    Hi Derek

    If you plug in a 25 note Midi Pedalboard into Midi-In 1 of the Wersi it should automatically play all the notes as it is universal. (Whatever Midi channel the pedalboard outputs on, just set the Wersi to this (You can also try it by selecting the channel for the manuals as a double check)

    NOTE: You should not need to change to a 700 as all instruments are universal over Midi. (At least that’s how OAS worked)

    Bill

    #14785
    immusic
    Keymaster
    @admin

    Derek,

    Interesting. I just did a quick test and was able to send and hear 5 full octaves. I also tried channels 1, 2, and 3 with the same results. I sent the notes from our DAW because it’s easier for me, but I could try it from a MIDI controller if needed.

    What voice do you have selected on the OAX side? For testing, I recommend you pick one of the pianos to ensure you have a “full range sound.” Another thought is to check when you send the note “C-3” from the Genos that it translates to “C-3” on the Wersi side. If not, you might be attempting to trigger a note out of range on the Wersi side.

    Question on the Genos configuration. Is there a chance that you have the keyboard split, and it’s not sending from all keys?

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by Curt.
    #14792
    Derek
    Participant
    @derekmatts

    Hi All,

    On the OAX 500 although I can see 25 pedals I can only set a zone of the bottom 17 notes, these are the only ones that I can play via midi ( set to channel 3 ).
    I am only able to set zones within the 17 notes, these are the only ones I can play.

    On the Upper & Lower I can see 61 notes ( not 76 notes ) the only notes playable are the 61
    If I decrease the zone to say bottom 50 notes I can only play these.

    Midi can only play notes within the zones?

    OAX Midi is set to Upper 1, Lower 2, Pedal 3.

    Note there is no USB-Midi on OAX 500 as with the OAX 1.

    Regards,
    Derek.

    #14793
    Curt
    Keymaster
    @immusiccm

    Derek,

    I’m a little lost. What do you mean by I can see 25 pedals? Where do you “see” that? Granted, I’m working on a 700, which does have 25 pedals. I didn’t set any zones when I tried this earlier today, but I just checked and saw C1-C3 as the default zone for Pedal1.

    Next, I set the zone on Pedal1 to C2-C3. Regardless of the zone setting, I was still able to play from C1-C3. Actually, I don’t think anything you are doing on the screen affects how your MIDI data is treated… At least that’s my findings. For example, changing the pedal voice (on the screen) does not affect the actual sound heard. From my testing, the same is true for setting a zone from the front panel.

    Just for fun – change from In1 to In2. It should behave basically the same. One minor difference is if you go into the 16 track sequencer, you can change the voice vs. sending it over MIDI. Of course, In2 also will respond to incoming program/bank changes.

    What I don’t know is if the 500 behaves the same as my 700?

    Try this. Shutdown OAX and from the Windows level, Wersi installs a utility called MIDI-OX. Startup that utility, open up the Input Monitor, play all 61 (or 76) notes on your Genos, and share back what is displayed.

    Here’s a small example of what it will look like:

    00004B90 3 — 92 24 62 3 C 2 Note On
    00004CEC 3 — 82 24 40 3 C 2 Note Off
    00004DB6 3 — 92 24 62 3 C 2 Note On
    00004F35 3 — 82 24 40 3 C 2 Note Off
    00004FDD 3 — 92 24 62 3 C 2 Note On

    That will help us understand what your Genos is sending to OAX.

    #14796
    Derek
    Participant
    @derekmatts

    Hi Curt,

    If I connect Genos Midi A Out to Wersi Midi 1 in – I can control the Wersi Upper manual using the Genos keyboard set to channel 1. This will play the sound or sounds setup on that keyboard. But will only play notes within the Zone of the 5 octaves ( C1 to C6 ). On the OAX 500 in the sound edit ( double click sound ) The keyboard range at the top of screen only C1 to C6 exist. It is not possible to select or control any notes below C1 or above C6.
    On the OAX 700 you will see the full 76 notes.

    If I Transmit on channel 2 I can do the same on the lower keyboard.

    When I Transmit on channel 3 I can control the 17 notes of the pedalboard playing the attached sounds. Although on the pedal sounds edit I can see the full 2 octaves ( 25 notes ) I can only setup sounds on the lower 17 notes the top 8 notes cannot be selected or put into a zone.
    Therefore connecting a 25 note pedalboard is still not possible as far as I can see??

    Wersi Midi 2 has not changed as far as I can see.

    Have not had time to check Midi OX but I can see the signals leaving the Genos. Not around Tuesday will get back to you Wednesday.

    Regards,
    Derek…..

    #14798
    Bill
    Participant
    @abacus

    HI Derek

    Interesting, the Abacus (Replaced by the OAX1) had options for a 76 note lower and full 25 note pedalboard, (The 25 pedal option it appears is no longer available for OAX1) the Verona (Replaced by the OAX500) also had the option for 25 pedals instead of 17 pedals, so perhaps this is why OAS worked fine with a full pedalboard but OAX does not. (It seems a strange decision for Wersi to take though)

    Bill

    #14801
    Derek
    Participant
    @derekmatts

    Hi Bill,

    Thanks for that a bit of history I did not know.
    I had a used OAX 1 with lower KB from Allens and I wanted to put a 25 note PB on for classical use and found it not possible. Also found it had an audio board fault and broken screen. Allens tried to obtain a new screen & board for over 6 months so in the end Trevor gave me a great deal on the OAX 500. As much as I liked the OAX 1 I found the 500 much better as it is all one small unit but still has the Wersi sound.
    As far as I know it is only the OAX 1 & 500 that have this problem, note there is no USB-Midi on either. I also notice on the main website they don’t even show the OAX 1 with a PB of any type.

    Regards,
    Derek…..

    #14802
    Mark Robbins
    Participant
    @markrobbins

    Given that different pedals options aren’t readily available, maybe the install by type, ie. 500, 600, 700, 800, Pergamon, sets the zones for each type as well as buttons etc.

    If I recall correctly, Ross in NZ had a 17 pedal 800 – wonder what zone he sees for pedals (just his 17 or the standard 25 for the 800).

    Feels like a request to Wersi to be able to set zone size for keyboards and pedals when using MIDI.

    #14813
    Derek
    Participant
    @derekmatts

    Hi Mark,

    All the OAX’s that I’ve seen have shown 25 notes on the range in sound edit from memory.
    But you can only set sounds/zones according to the pedal attached. On the OAX 1 you can change the settings for Lower Keyboard ( 61 or 76 ) and Pedal Size ( 13 or 17 ) in the settings or run Sonic menu in Windows. Whatever you set it still shows 25 notes.

    Regards,
    Derek…..

    #14818
    Curt
    Keymaster
    @immusiccm

    Well, at this point, I guess I need to sit back and watch, listen and learn. I don’t get this. As I’ve mentioned, we have an OAX700, so that does open us up to both 61, 76, and 25 note “keyboards.” Does that matter? I don’t think so.

    Perhaps, as others have suggested, OAX1 and OAX500 vs.the other OAX models might change how OAX handles the MIDI data???????

    All I can say is we can send ALL midi notes to any MIDI channel on OAX, and it responds and plays. We find the same results on MIDI In1 or In2.

    What am I missing? MIDI is MIDI – Just send it?

    #14819
    Curt
    Keymaster
    @immusiccm

    I just posted this to a Wersi Facebook group. A bunch of super-smart Wersi folks there. Maybe one of them can help? I’m also going to send a note to Wersi support to ask about this. Did I already say I don’t get it”

    #14820
    Orgelist Carlo
    Participant
    @carlo

    Hello,

    Close OAX.
    In C:\Wersi\settings\Instrumentsettings.ini
    Change “Pedalboard=17” to “Pedalboard=25” and Save.
    Restart OAX.
    Midi Pedal on channel 3 will now respond to 25 notes.
    Thats all…

    Regards,
    Carlo

    #14821
    Orgelist Carlo
    Participant
    @carlo

    Deleted… πŸ˜’

    #14822
    Torgny
    Participant
    @torgny

    Wow, how did you know that Carlo!?
    Hope someone can test it.

    #14823
    Orgelist Carlo
    Participant
    @carlo

    πŸ˜†πŸ˜†πŸ˜†
    Some Technical Knowhow…
    πŸ˜„πŸ˜„πŸ˜„

    #14859
    Bill
    Participant
    @abacus

    There is a reason Wersi says do not touch the file system of OAX (Or OAS) without supervision as if you get it wrong it can cause problems. (There is much you can do with the file system (Just like there was with OAS) but posting modifications to the file system for non techs to do (Most OAS/OAX owners) is something that should be discouraged except via pm)
    You also could void any warrantee

    Bill

    #14860
    JK
    Participant
    @joeyk

    Intentionally deleted
    Juergen

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by JK.
    #14862
    Derek
    Participant
    @derekmatts

    Don’t Panic,

    Problem solved – Thanks to Carlo – I will try to explain:-

    Curt – There is no problem with Midi – Go to pedal on your 700 and select a sound, then go to sound edit, then select range and set (zone) C1 to E2. You will then see what I see on my 500. 25 notes but only the first 17 play, and that will be the case if you sent Midi on channel 3 only the first 17 play the following 8 notes are silent. Now if you change your zone to C1 to C3 you can play all 25 notes via Pedal or Midi.
    My problem is that OAX 500 will not let me set zone C1 to C3 therefore I can’t play the top 8 notes via adding Midi Pedalboard.

    Carlo – If I go into the Settings ini file there is no option to select LM or Pedal length as there is in the ini file of the OAX 1.

    Note:- I have tried by setting the ini file to OAX 1 and then the option appears and if I change to 25 pedals and open OAX as if it were a OAX 1 it seems to work ok and I can play all 25 notes as you say.

    Thanks all for help, Regards,
    Derek…..
    PS. “I do not advise anybody to try this, as Bill says it could void any warranty issues etc”.

    #14873
    JK
    Participant
    @joeyk

    Hm,

    hi Derek, thanks for your testing and clarification…

    So Wersi is not to blame!

    Cheers, Juergen

    #14875
    JK
    Participant
    @joeyk

    …when I will be home I will check again. But when I installed 2.85 I think I was instantly able to use all the 25 keys. That’s a least what I can remember. But I do not really need all of the 25 keys, because I am not that professional πŸ˜‰

    Cheers Juergen

    P.S. I have an OAX1…by the way…maybe the ini file changes more than you would like to? So I think Bills comment is reasonable..LetΒ΄s see what Wersi says

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by JK.
    #14885
    Curt
    Keymaster
    @immusiccm

    Thanks to everyone that commented. An interesting discussion. I did hear back from Uli (Wersi), and he sent me a file that will set up the needed config. I suspect he will send anyone the file if requested.

    Hi Curt,

    As the name Direct MIDI suggests, MIDI is played in the same way as on the organ. And the OAX500 only has a 17-key pedal. So only the 17 notes sound.

    I can, of course, set this in the INI file.
    You can unzip this file and copy it to a USB Memory Stick

    Pedal Keys 25 (this was the link to the needed file)

    Then just go to Settings and Update Software.

    Regards,
    Uli

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by Curt.
    #14897
    Derek
    Participant
    @derekmatts

    Curt,

    Thanks again for your time, sorry I was not able to explain or get my point over sooner.
    Its good to hear that Wersi are happy to help with the ini.file even though its an unofficial mod that gives me a full pedalboard cheeper than buying a OAX 700.

    Kindest regards,
    Derek…
    PS. Good of you Wersi!!!

    #14898
    Torgny
    Participant
    @torgny

    Hi Derek!
    What midi pedal do you want to use?
    Can you just remove to fysical pedal parts on the organ and replace it with a midi pedal board?

    #14899
    Torgny
    Participant
    @torgny

    I’m wondering if it would be possible to add the Solo keyboard, of the Pergamon, also in this .ini file?

    #14920
    Derek
    Participant
    @derekmatts

    Torgny,

    If still had my OAX 1 I would buy a 25 note midi pedalboard.

    But don’t think its worth uninstalling the board on a 500 to install a bigger board,
    although it would be possible. My organ building days are well over.

    Derek…….

    #14921
    Derek
    Participant
    @derekmatts

    Torgny,

    Regards the solo board could be done but is it worth it?

    Where would you install it??

    Derek…..

    #14925
    Orgelist Carlo
    Participant
    @carlo

    Hello Torgny,

    About a Midi-ed Solomanual,

    Only possible if your Organ is configured as Pergamon or OAX1000.
    But…, the Panelbuttons and Drawbars won’t match anymore, as the Pergamon/OAX1000 has another Panel-layout.

    Best Regards,
    Me

    #14930
    Derek
    Participant
    @derekmatts

    Carlo,

    Thanks for that info (Pergamon Panel Layout) saved me finding out the hard way.

    Also my comments on the ini.file were incorrect as I was looking at the Menu you see just before going into OAX eg. Wersi OAX or Settings.

    Regards,
    Derek……PS. Your Styles are fantastic – Thanks Again!!

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Forums Wersi Products Adding a Midi pedalboard